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Replying to Thread: Lien Filing by Mail
Created On Thursday 8, January, 2009 1:20 PM by elh919@aol.com


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elh919@aol.com
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Thursday January 08, 2009 1:20 PM

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I started filing my "new liens" OCR format, etc and am mailing them to the appropriate boards. I'm curious if anyone has a timeline as to how long it is taking liens to show up in the file. I have simultaneously filed or previously filed Casewatch thru Edex. I keep checking for Party Updates to see if we are listed as having a lien of record, but no success to date. I filed my first lien the first week in December.

Also, is it better to file the liens directly at the board. Either way, I'm so used to being able to date stamp and place the liens directly in the board file, the old way, it seems strange to not know when the lien has been received and then if it made it's way thru scanning etc.

Just curious to hear others' experiences opinions.

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rider001
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Tuesday January 13, 2009 9:46 AM

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I have been filling by OCR in N. Cali. and to be honest haven't seen any party update come through with our name on it. Been filling since November.

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loki2@dslextreme.com
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Monday February 02, 2009 12:36 PM

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Good question. I have a couple that I walked in which the lien claimant is still not showing on the official record. One of these is nearing the statute and I recently put it through for the 3rd time (twice under the new format). What I have mailed in has been a crap shoot. Does anyone out there know what's going on? How long should it normally take?


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julia@edexis.com
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Thursday February 05, 2009 12:31 PM

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To explain WHY this is happening in EAMS, we have to understand the data structure of EAMS, how data is automatically added into EAMS when a document is filed (specifically, WHERE in EAMS data structure certain parties are added or not), and which parts of EAMS report to EDEX, and what events trigger new reports to EDEX. EAMS terms are in CAPITALS and BOLD and represent terms used by DWC employees in answer to specific questions my office has posed. EAMS terms do not always equate to LEGACY terms.

In EAMS, information is stored and organized in cases for each applicable product delivery unit. There are six different product delivery units. EDEX deals primarily with the ADJ (or ADJudication) unit. Some data is accessed from the INT (or INTegrated) case, which is the "umbrella case" that contains all the subsequent product delivery unit cases underneath it. So, INT stuff includes the ADJ stuff, and plus stuff from any of the other product delivery unit cases that may be involved (such as DEU).

In EAMS, a single list of all CASE PARTICIPANTS may be viewed from the INT case by selecting the CASE PARTICIPANTS link found in the navigation links on the left-hand margin after clicking the tab marked INT123456 (random sample case number). This list contains all case participants: injured worker, carriers, attorneys, lien claimants, reps, etc.

In EAMS, the APPLICANT or DEFENSE CASE PARTIES may be viewed on the ADJ case HOME PAGE. About the middle of the screen, the case parties will be sorted into two lists. Applicant parties are listed on the left, defense parties are listed on the right. Lien claimants converted from LEGACY may be listed here under Applicant, but generally, lien claimants or reps added by a new lien document filed into EAMS are NOT listed in the ADJ CASE PARTIES.

In EAMS while still working in the ADJ case: to view the list of LIENS, click the LIENS link found in the navigation links on the left-hand margin.

EAMS contains at least these three different places to add a lien claimant or a lien rep when a new lien form is filed successfully into EAMS.

Based on the evidence and reports from current EDEX users on what is filed and displayed in EAMS, when a new lien document is filed into EAMS, it may be deduced that:

1. The LIEN CLAIMANT is added to the INT CASE PARTICIPANTS and to the ADJ LIENS lists, but NOT to the ADJ CASE PARTIES.

2. The LIEN REP is added to the INT CASE PARTICIPANTS.

3. EAMS sends an EDEX CASE PARTY UPDATE NOTICE when the ADJ CASE PARTIES are modified.

4. ADJ CASE PARTIES are modified by a WCAB CLERK. This is considered an EAMS WORK FLOW issue - whenever something must be done by a clerk because it does not happen automatically in EAMS.

5. Filing a NOTICE OF REPRESENTATION triggers the necessary WORK FLOW so a clerk will add the rep to the desired list (so far the evidence points to the ADJ CASE PARTIES list, but this is NOT YET CONFIRMED).

6. It appears that the INT CASE PARTICIPANTS list is not the same LIST OF PARTIES FOR SERVICE to whom EAMS mails hearing notices (also called MAILERS).


-------------------------
Julia Julien
EDEX Information Systems, Inc.
(866) GET EDEX toll free

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rider001
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Thursday February 05, 2009 1:18 PM

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This sounds to me like a lot of fancy jargon expalining why EDEX isn't working properly. I suggest that EDEX finds a way to let its lien claimants know when their liens have made it into the system. If not there is no reason for any of your clients to continue using the service other than for autopopulate. The hearing notices as of now dont mean anything to a lien claimant if their lien has not made it to the board file and therefore will not be address because to defense attorney is not aware of it. I understand EDEX has no control over EAMS as far as when a lien makes it to the file but does EDEX really expect a lien claimant with thousands of lien to research EAMS to see if a lien has made it? It almost seems better to file by paper so when you recieve a paper notice at least you know your on the record.

I have already attended several lien conferences where def. has said they do not have a copy of a lien because it claimant wasn't listed on the OAR, which is b.s. in itself because they get copied. In their defense they are probably overworked and do not have the time to go through their entire file to make sure they have not missed any liens. They are relying on the OAR which they have done for years and are ready to deal with those liens listed.

It seems that your post is geared towards those who are able to access EAMS. If you are able to work in EAMS there should not be a problem. I beleive the issue at hand is those lien claimants still having to file OCR not know where there lien is.

Edited: Thursday February 05, 2009 at 1:49 PM by rider001

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julia@edexis.com
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Thursday February 05, 2009 2:17 PM

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Believe me, if EDEX could do exactly as you suggest, then my reply would simply have referenced our prompt solution. Rather than just being frustrated, we are focusing efforts on helping our users to adjust to EAMS and locating the cause of what "isn't working properly" so we can get it to "work properly" instead. And let me assure you, EDEX is working properly. That's what we do. We also provide support and assistance to our EDEX users who also happen to be in the EAMS e-forms trial. None of those trial participants have stopped using EDEX. We like to think it is the responsive customer support - even with EAMS questions - that we provide. We are happy to help anyone whose EDEX isn't working properly.




-------------------------
Julia Julien
EDEX Information Systems, Inc.
(866) GET EDEX toll free

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rider001
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Thursday February 05, 2009 3:57 PM

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Now that you have identified a problem with lien claimant party updates, are there any solutions on the horizon?

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ymcgavin@socal.rr.com
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Friday February 06, 2009 8:30 AM

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Hi ELH, et al,

You stated: "I started filing my "new liens" OCR format, etc and am mailing them to the appropriate boards."

We do the same thing, but although it costs more, we take the extra step of mailing them to the appropriate district office of the WCAB, copying the ER, IC, and DA, all by certified return-receipt mail. On the green r-r card, we write the name of the IW (e.g. Sally Sue Soreback) along with a notation EAMS DWC WCAB Form 6 --- and in the past, the legacy case number, but now the EAMS number.

We have been doing this for over 10 years, albeit without the "EAMS" notation for our older liens.

On a daily basis, I still hear complaints from WCJs that our liens are not listed on the old OAR, nor are they included in the new EAMS address record, as well as the same complaint from the DA that they never received a copy of our lien.

Of course all of our liens are on legacy cases, as we shut the door to new IW referrals 1/1/05. Quite often, after we have walked through a DOR to get a case on calendar for a status conference, we get angry letters or angry phone calls from the adjuster or DA claiming that "this is a closed file, we did not receive a copy of the lien," and a request that we provide them with a new copy.

My response has always been the same: "I am not going to send you another copy, as I have already provided you a copy via certified return-receipt mail, the green card indicates your facility (IC/TPA/DA) received it on so-and-so a date," and I suggest to the IC/TPA/DA that they go to their long-term storage, retrieve and reopen the closed file, and locate our lien.

The certified return-receipt documentation has always saved the day. Once I demonstrate to the WCJ that we did indeed deliver the lien to the WCAB, and I explain that I have no control over what the WCAB's clerical staff does, or does not do, we proceed to either resolving the lien or litigating the lien.

The WCJs are quite aware that their clerical staff are simply overwhelmed.

In regards to the DA or adjuster, who writes or calls complaining they never received a copy of our lien, again the certified return-receipt documentation saves the day. What it all boils down to is that the DA and/or the adjuster simply does not want to request the "closed file" to be pulled from storage, and have to reopen it.

Oh well. I did my job, and unless the DA or adjuster is willing to pay me to copy them again, they will need to pull the "closed file" from storage and reopen it.

ELH, keep on mailing in those liens --- but do it certified return-receipt. If you are not notified of a hearing due to the failure of the WCAB's clerical staff to open your letter, and scan the lien into EAMS, as well as properly add you to the address record, it is through no fault of your own.

As an aside for those who are, or will be, signing up as external EAMS users --- be prepared with paper backup copies of everything. There is no 'firewall' or 'encryption software' or 'virus, worm, or trojan protection' that is 100% safe.

Sooner or later, somebody is going to knowingly or unknowingly electronically file a sub-rosa picture in jpg format, a sub-rosa video in mpeg format, or a brief saved as a pdf document, containing a virus, worm, or trojan that will crash the EAMS system --- and possibly infect the computers of EAMS' external users. It will be interesting to see how the fire department for the WCAB puts out that blaze --- while the system grinds to a halt.

For the sake of the injured workers of CA, I certainly hope this does not happen, but I will not be surprised if it does happen.

York McGavin
ymcgavin@socal.rr.com

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julia@edexis.com
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Friday February 06, 2009 12:46 PM

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Is a solution on the horizon?

Short answer: Yes.

Caveat: The DWC can move only so swiftly. There is no timeline for the solution. Resources are limited, needs are great, and strict priorities are in place. In our experience, solutions are applied as swiftly as possible.

There are several possible solutions, including bulk electronic document filing currently under development by the DWC. The timeline for bulk electronic document filing is currently estimated to be 6-18 months.

We anticipate a solution well before then, since this affects all filers and even judges who are also being affected with additional delays in proceedings.


-------------------------
Julia Julien
EDEX Information Systems, Inc.
(866) GET EDEX toll free


Edited: Friday February 06, 2009 at 12:48 PM by julia@edexis.com

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elh919@aol.com
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Friday February 06, 2009 1:52 PM

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Thanks York, as always very helpful. Nice to know that I'm on the right track and am with everyone else trying to muddle through the new world of technology.

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rider001
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Friday February 06, 2009 4:22 PM

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I received my first party update in EDEX for a lien mailed 1/28/09. 1 for 100 not bad. Still no party updates for anything filed in November or December.

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