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Replying to Thread: 2nd Opinion after UR cert
Created On Thursday 26, February, 2009 3:26 PM by lyounglaw


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lyounglaw
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Thursday February 26, 2009 3:26 PM

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I haven't come across this situation before -- my client received a request for back surgery (on a case that is not mine) and submitted it to UR; UR gave it a partial cert by certifying the surgery but not the length of hospital stay and a few other items. My client sent out a timely objection to the surgery itself and requested a second opinion. However, the question is whether the insurance company can get a second opinion when their own UR certified the surgery, although there was a non-cert of peripheral items. I've done some research and can't find anything on point, but it appears that the objection usually follows a non-cert. For example, Brasher v. Nationwide mentions only a UR denial. On the other hand, if both parties agree to a second opinion and the insurance company is willing to pay for it, then I don't see any barrier to agreeing to a 2nd opinion surgeon.

I'd appreciate your opinions on this question.
Thanks, Laura

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STEVEPSCA@YAHOO.COM
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Thursday February 26, 2009 4:37 PM

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I won't answer your legal questions... but, WHY would the IW, or the PTP, let alone the carrier permit a surgery, spinal at that without a second opinion...?

As the LC provides for the second opinion process... it should be done. Regardless of the UR determination... and, how can the UR doctor tell in advance how the procedure will play out, and how many days are 'medically necessary', on a 'reasonable, industrial basis', per the ACOEM/MTUS/EBM/ODG guidelines...?
Just curious...



<< On the other hand, if both parties agree to a second opinion and the insurance company is willing to pay for it, then I don't see any barrier to agreeing to... >>



What's the problem..?... I guess that isn't really the question... rather 'who' is objecting to the second opinion...?

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stewshe@comcast.net
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Thursday February 26, 2009 5:25 PM

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lyounglaw,

I had a similar case a week or two ago. The CA's UR objected to the 1 day hospital stay on back surgery their UR authorized and they filed a Spinal Surgery Objection with the A.D....but it was defective...no cc to the EE and they did not sign the required Proof of Service, but substituted one of their own POS which did not have all of the same elements.

This should "bounce" back from the AD, leaving them defenseless with no "valid" objection.

Also, they cannot get a 2nd opinion as to the surgery to second guess their UR...Sandhagen doesn't allow it. The only possibility is discussed below, unless the AA agrees to someone else:

The purpose of the objection to the AD was to obtain a "Second Opinion Physician" on the Spinal Surgery issue and in my case they have blown the proper procedure by not objecting properly.

There is no incentive in my case for the EE to agree to anyone as a 2nd opinion.

Now, the question is, did your client send a timely objection to the AD within 10 days on DWC Form 233 and otherwise comply with all the requirements of CCR Sec. 9788.1?

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Stew (James T. Stewart) e-mail: stewshe@comcast.net
Author: Work Comp Index & Tables & Schedules in "The Labor Code Book," by LexisNexis/Matthew Bender.

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Edited: Thursday February 26, 2009 at 5:29 PM by stewshe@comcast.net

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lyounglaw
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Friday February 27, 2009 11:25 AM

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Stew and Stevepsca: Thanks for your feedback. I felt that I was on the right track, but it was nice to get other people's experiences. I just love this forum -- nice people and good information, so how can you go wrong!

I don't think the IC fully complied with the objection & notice requirements based on the info I got from my client. I think the IC objected because of the partial cert from UR and perhaps didn't bother to read the UR report. Stevepsca, I agree with you on the number of days in the hospital. I can't imagine that, if the patient has to stay another day or two, that the IC will not pay because of the UR non-cert -- it seems too easy to overcome that objection based on the medical necessity argument.

I'm not sure if Applicant is represented since it isn't my case, but if both parties agree that they want a 2nd opinion, I'd say to get one if the IC wants to pay for it.

Thanks again, Laura

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